Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
02/23/2009 08:00 AM Senate EDUCATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB33 | |
| SB102 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 102 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 33 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 102-RAISE COMP. SCHOOL ATTENDANCE AGE/TRUANCY
8:19:44 AM
CHAIR ELTON announced SB 102 to be up for consideration.
DON BURRELL, aide to Senator Davis, sponsor of SB 102, said it
increases the Alaska compulsory school attendance age from 7-16
to 7-18. At the same time it necessarily amends the crime of
contributing to the delinquency of a minor from the maximum age
of 16 to a maximum of 18 years of age. This bill will not
preclude parents from home schooling children, using charter or
alternative schools or any other of the 12 exceptions to
compulsory education including completion of grades 12 or
graduation from secondary schools before the age of 18.
Last year 3,283 Alaskan students dropped out and 62.4 percent of
graduating student population actually graduated according to a
Department of Education and Early Development (DEED) report.
Nationally, the graduation rate is 70 percent or higher; the
highest dropout rate in Alaska is among minorities with Alaska
Natives being double the rate of all others. These numbers have
not changed in many years, and Alaska's compulsory school
attendance age has also not changed in decades. Seventeen states
have increased the compulsory school attendance age to 18 years
old; nine additional states maintain that age at 17 and 23
states maintain the age at 16.
MR. BURRELL said the legislative intent by states that have
increased compulsory school attendance age to 18 is to encourage
more students to stay in school long enough to graduate, to
attend institutions of higher education and decrease dropout
rates, juvenile crime and teen pregnancies. Studies have shown
that students without a diploma earn less than 75 percent of
those with a diploma; they are more likely to live in poverty,
go to jail and have health problems. The purpose of this bill is
to deal directly with the dropout rate and graduate rate of
Alaska's students.
8:23:45 AM
SENATOR STEVENS asked how increasing the age to 18 will lessen
the dropout rate and improve the graduation rate and whether he
has any data to back it up.
8:24:26 AM
SENATOR DAVIS answered that some information is in their packets
but that increasing the age from 16 to 18 would give schools two
more years to work with students to prepare them for graduation.
This bill doesn't just require that students sit there for two
more years without doing anything, but educators can then give
these students meaningful reasons for being in school.
She said many kids don't drop out because they are failing; they
have many other reasons. If a caring person helps them through a
tough situation, that might help them stay in. Changing the age
from 16 to 18 has proven to help other states with their
graduation rates. This bill does not mandate having truant
officers to force students to go to school, but it would provide
programs that would be beneficial to them; some of these
programs are already being set up.
8:26:28 AM
SENATOR OLSON asked what kind of difference the existing
enforcement policies would make on students who must stay in
school until the age of 18.
SENATOR DAVIS replied that the bill doesn't mandate any active
enforcement.
SENATOR OLSON said he got a call from a constituent asking if
the negative attitude of a student who doesn't want to be in
school will adversely affect the others.
SENATOR DAVIS responded that the school system is set up to
handle those situations. Kids can't misbehave and not have some
action taken.
SENATOR OLSON asked what effect this has on private secondary
schools; do they need to raise their age, too?
SENATOR DAVIS replied that this legislation doesn't have
anything to do with private schools.
CHAIR ELTON asked MR. JEANS from the Department of Education
what happens now to a 15-year old who doesn't attend school.
8:29:40 AM
EDDIE JEANS, Director of School Finance, Department of Education
and Early Development (DEED), answered under the current law,
once a child turns 16, he is no longer required to attend public
school. AS 14.30.010, the compulsory attendance law, places a
requirement on the guardian of the child to ensure that child
attends a public school. If the child does not attend, then it's
the guardian who is in violation of state law. It is not a
felony, but fines are attached.
CHAIR ELTON asked if the same penalties accrue if the age is
bumped up.
MR. JEANS replied that the same penalties would apply.
CHAIR ELTON asked if the department has a position on the bill.
MR. JEANS replied that the department is neutral. Commissioner
LeDoux's main concern is to provide additional opportunities to
these students who are dropping out. They are not all bad kids;
many of them have lost interest.
MR. JEANS said the main thing he asks is will moving the
compulsory age from 16 to 18 harm any child, and he believes the
answer is no. Right now if a child decides to drop out at age
16, they know they can do that; if they know the law is 18, they
know that, too.
8:32:05 AM
CHAIR ELTON said the way he reads the bill, if a 17-year old
drops out and begins working on a GED, he isn't excused from
this law.
MR. JEANS replied that students are exempted from the compulsory
school age once you're awarded the GED, not while working toward
it.
SENATOR STEVENS said the foundation formula allows
$10,000/student and asked if a kid drops out at age 17 or 18
now, the district loses those funds. It seems to be logical that
keeping the student in school for an additional two years would
make additional funds available that the district wouldn't have
otherwise - to do counseling or alternative programs. Is that
what districts would do?
MR. JEANS replied that is their hope.
8:33:39 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS joined the meeting.
MR. JEANS said he believes the fiscal note is high, because he
went to the state's new unique student identifier data base and
looked at all students from ages 16-18 who were there on count
date in October, but were no longer in school and didn't
graduate in the summer. He identified 1,661 students who moved
out of system without a high school diploma. Some of these
students may have moved out of state, and the department simply
doesn't know if they went to another public school. That's why
he would say this fiscal note is on the high end. He offered to
work with the committee to revise the bill with more meaningful
numbers.
8:35:26 AM
CHAIR ELTON said it would be helpful to get some assumptions
from the department on things like military transfers, children
entering a home-school situation or going to a private school.
8:36:16 AM
SENATOR DAVIS said she appreciated that Mr. Jeans was willing to
work on the fiscal note, but that wasn't really a concern of
hers; if the students don't show up they wouldn't be in the
foundation formula and the money wouldn't ever be used anyway.
It's just a number, and the Finance Committee could deal with
it.
CHAIR ELTON agreed but added that having a good fiscal note that
is less could help the discussion.
SENATOR HUGGINS said they need to be as accurate as possible so
legislators can have confidence in what it is doing with the
public's money.
8:37:28 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said the department should have some idea how
many kids drop out because of family issues but asked how many
are bored or in trouble with the law. They should be able to
figure out who those kids are.
MR. JEANS responded when a student leaves the system, the
district identifies to the department why the student left. If
they go to another public school, that shows up, and those
students would not be included in this number. These students
have left the system and for some reason aren't showing up
anywhere else in the public schools. Beyond that, he has data
about when they left, but not why.
8:38:47 AM
CHAIR ELTON asked if a Coast Guard family is transferred and
their child leaves school, would the district know that.
MR. JEANS answered that an indicator can be used showing the
student transferred to another state, but that doesn't always
happen. They are much better at recording the actual transfers
within state.
SENATOR HUGGINS said he wanted to recognize efforts by the
current commissioner of DEED who at the end of this past week
held the first in a series of graduation rate forums in
Anchorage.
8:40:33 AM
PATRICIA GEORGE, Alaska State Literacy Association, believed
mandatory school attendance age should be lowered from seven to
six years of age and that 32 states now require students to
attend school by age six. In her experience as a first-grade
teacher, she found there is no way to compel parents to have
their children attend school regularly or on time, but it is
important for them to do that so that they don't miss critical
steps in the learning process. SB 102 is an appropriate vehicle
to make that change and she urged them to amend it to lower the
mandatory school age from seven to six.
8:42:09 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS asked her for a "quick burst" on her rationale
for seven versus six years old.
MS. GEORGE replied that she has tried to get the age lowered
since Senator Duncan served in the Legislature, but she was told
long ago by a staffer that someone tried to lower the age and a
fiscal note was added that stopped it. Now there is a new and
important interest in getting children into school earlier, so
she is bringing it up again.
8:43:03 AM
SENATOR DAVIS said she had been trying to get a bill on that
issue through the legislature for several years but for some
reason hadn't been able to get it passed. She thought about
putting the lower and the higher ages in this bill but decided
not to because graduation is so important, and she wants it to
pass; the lower age issue has been so contentious.
8:44:16 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said he doesn't know anyone whose children don't
start at six, and asked if it is really a problem.
MS. GEORGE remarked that as a first-grade teacher she has found
many parents who feel their children don't have to be in school
if it's not mandatory. So the kids end up coming in late or
attending only a few days a week.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if she had any data to support that.
MS. GEORGE said she doesn't now but could get it.
SENATOR DAVIS said that data could be provided and many people
could speak to it. What Ms. George said is correct.
MS. GEORGE said "No Child Left Behind" requires that all
students be reading on grade level at the end of third grade.
So, if they don't expect children to start school until age
seven, it's going to be very difficult for many of them to be
reading on grade level at the end of third grade at age eight or
nine.
8:46:30 AM
CHAIR ELTON said before this bill was heard again he wanted to
get some information from other states on their experience with
handling age at the bottom end.
MS. GEORGE said only seven states don't require districts to
provide kindergarten, and 17 states require kids to attend it.
"States are moving toward mandatory kindergarten." With the
emphasis on getting kids into preschool to get them ready for
school, you need them in school so they can progress through.
8:47:51 AM
CHAIR ELTON assumed if it was left at age seven, a six year old
could get into kindergarten, so mandatory kindergarten may not
completely address the age problem. A five-year old wouldn't be
compelled to go to kindergarten the same way a six-year old
would.
MS. GEORGE said the states that require districts to provide a
kindergarten don't necessarily require attendance; all the
states that have lowered their age to five do.
SENATOR STEVENS cautioned that there are a lot of good things
that can and should be done. This bill could cover everything
but may gather opposition things are added to it.
8:49:46 AM
SENATOR DAVIS asked Ms. George if she wants to have mandatory
kindergarten.
MS. GEORGE replied not in this particular bill. They are just
trying to get their foot in the door with this one; they would
be happy to see others.
8:50:36 AM
SENATOR OLSON brought up Mark Twain's quote - "I would not want
my education interrupted by my schooling" - and asked if other
states that have lower compulsory school age see a correlation
with improved graduation rates.
MS. GEORGE said her position paper that used research papers as
a resource cites a correlation between children who attend high
quality preschools and kindergartens. They are less likely to be
retained in primary grades, have higher graduation rates from
high school and have fewer behavior problems.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if a child enters at seven and proceeds
through the school system that means they will spend three years
before they get into the third grade where reading is crucial.
If a child starts school at age seven couldn't he skip a grade?
MS. GEORGE replied that is not always the case. It's up to the
school to place the child.
SENATOR STEVENS said they place a child for a reason - perhaps
one is that they are ready to move ahead.
MS. GEORGE replied that all things are taken into consideration,
and a large child would probably not be put into a kindergarten
classroom - maybe first grade, and it would be the teacher's
responsibility to catch them up.
8:53:17 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS said in his experience, if a 15 and a half-year
old drops out, "we as a society do not have the will power to go
out and enforce that age." He thought that was a fundamental
question.
MS. GEORGE responded that she didn't have that information.
8:54:31 AM
SENATOR DAVIS stated 95 percent of children in Alaska go to
kindergarten even though it is not mandatory.
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School
Boards, supported SB 102. His major concern was how many parents
are willing to let their 16-year olds make life decisions on a
daily basis. The decision to stay in school is premature at age
16, he said. "What kind of rights does a 16-year old have
anywhere else to do anything else; you can't even vote at that
age!" Even without enforcement, mandating education until age 16
sends a message that they can make that choice; he urged
committee members to not send that message. Conversely, changing
that age to 18 sends a strong message as well.
MR. ROSE added that the third-grade benchmark is where they see
the gap in achievement occur. That separation continues on and
is one of the bases for dropping out.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked Mr. Rose why the minimum age was
established at seven years in the first place.
MR. ROSE replied that it has been seven years old for as long as
he has known. They have tried to lower it to six, but fiscal
notes have gotten in the way, and some parents don't want to be
mandated to send their kids off to formal education until age
seven.
CHAIR ELTON asked Mr. Rose if he could provide the committee
with more information on that issue.
8:58:52 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS said he had always felt if a child can't read by
the third grade he should stay there and catch up, but that
doesn't seem to happen. People graduate from high school who
can't read; something is wrong with our system if we do that.
MR. ROSE responded that he thinks Senator Huggins is talking
about "social promotion" and the issue is if kids are ready to
learn when they come to school. If they start school and don't
even know their alphabet, they are probably not going to be
sight reading by the third grade, and they are already behind
the curve. If they can't read when they graduate, you can be
sure that problem started in elementary school when they didn't
gain those skills. "So, this bill is about helping kids getting
to graduate and I support that component of it. I also heard
some comments here that do merit some consideration in terms of
insuring that kids get the best bite of the apple early."
9:01:15 AM
AMBER SAWYER, representing herself as a former Alaska school
system graduate and UAA student and also as a big sister of two
current elementary students. She said she has a nine-year old
brother who attends Finger Lake Elementary School where she
volunteers. It was very easy to tell in middle school who took
school seriously and who was going to drop out. Some students
were just biding their time until they could drop out instead of
looking at "voc tech" programs in the community or attending the
alternative high schools where they can have a job while they
are in school. Looking at the fourth grade students she
volunteers with, she said you've got to offer them something, a
reason to stay in.
9:04:23 AM
CHAIR ELTON held SB 102 in committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| CS explained.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
|
| CSSB 102 DRAFT.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
|
| Sectional Analysis CSSB 102 DRAFT.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
|
| Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |
| NEA 12 point plan.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |
| Drop Out Fact Sheet.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |
| State laws compared USDOL.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |
| State Laws NCSL.pdf |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |
| ltr NEA supporting 22009.doc |
SEDC 2/23/2009 8:00:00 AM |
SB 102 |